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After the old forum software breaking in a way that we were unable to fix, we've migrated the site to a new platform.

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Bottomless Portafilters

rellwoodrellwood
edited January 1970 in Espresso Machines
Would like to know if anyone has had any experience with bottomelss Portafilters? Thinking about ordering one but not sure if there are any pratical uses, besides the nice look and watching the shot fill the glass.
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Comments

  • LoveyLovey
    It's a good training tool to help you to evaluate your distribution and tamping technique by watching the flow from the bottom of the PF. You can literally see the effects of channeling, uneven tamping, poor distribution happening right in front of your eyes. I've got one, but I don't use it as much as I should  :-[
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  • psaighpsaigh
    While at my work we don't have one, i have used one breeifly before.  I noticed muc more crema in the cup (presumalby because it doesn't get lost travelling along the metal on the way to the cup much like pouring straight into a cup vs into a shot glass and tehn into a cup).  And also more intesity in the flavour (again, presumably relating back to the fact of increased crema). I was wondering if anyone had any idea's as to how to use one in a commercial environment serving take away coffee's in around 3 or more varying sizes.  The only thing i can think of by replacing the filter basket for every different sized cup (eg/ 9g for sml, 14g for med, 18g for large and 22 or 24g for stupid starbucks sized mammoths). Obviousely this has many draw backs in terms of speed, hygiene and filter baskets flying around everywhere (especially if operating two 3 group machines each with 3 or 4 different filter baskets). Any thoughts...
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  • rellwoodrellwood
    Bottomless Portafilter arrived today. Gave it a go and it works great. Seems to produce a good shot with lots of crema. I have noticed not all shots look the same, this may be a result of tamping and will be working on tamping.
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    I was wondering if anyone had any idea's as to how to use one in a commercial environment serving take away coffee's in around 3 or more varying sizes.
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  • nzroasternzroaster
    The reason that I wouldnt use nakeds in a commercial sense is that the cream is far from ideal and the taste of the espresso just doesnt have the balance or velvety mouthfeel. They are great for training though! work on your dose, distribution and tamp as you can really see the difference in the pour.
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  • psaighpsaigh
    not sure why you would be using different sized baskets in the first place (apart from single and double that is) at my work we serve one shot for an 8oz takeaway, 2 shots for a 12oz, and 3 shots for a 16oz (plus add another shot for strong)
    The idea of using different sized portafilters stems from david schomer's work, experimenting at espreso vivace in seatle, where they have used anything up to a 35gram basket to pull 45second double restretto's.  His argument is that in a big cup nation (USA) the Italian standards for machine design (7-8 and 14-16gram basket design) aren't working with any kind of consistancy for cup sizes ranging up to one litre.
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    Yeah but who has time to wait around for a 45sec extraction? We up-dose  to 10g for a single, and 20g for a double, which gives a lot more body and depth of palate to the extraction. And for the large (16oz) coffees we serve 3 shots standard, or 4 upon request (at no extra charge) Might be good to experiment with a naked pf to look at the quality of the extraction over the range of the coffees that you serve, but I see the naked pf mainly as a learning tool, to help assess whether you tamp and grind are on form or not. ACG
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  • DoubleRistrettoDoubleRistretto
    Hi NZ - am surprised that you find you don't get as good a crema with the naked, nor the 'mouthfeel'. When someone recommended to me that I try the naked, I was pleasantly surprised by the good crema, and also the richness of the extraction. I agree with one of the comments above about it not travelling along the metal'. I enjoy the absence of the 'metallic' flavour, and if anything, to me it feels like it gives the shot a slightly richer flavour. dR
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  • nzroasternzroaster
    The crema I get from the naked is very aerated, in contrast to the sliky smooth crema I get from the spouted Pf. It also settles alot faster and I find it lacks the stability that you get when using spouts. As for the mouthfeel, I find the taste from the bottomless is cleaner, but lacks balance. I pick up a bias towards the sweeter end of the scale. The clean flavours are usually those from the acidity and sweetness, and with my style of roasting, these are in no need of highlighting. As for richer flavour, I personally find this in more abundance through the spouts. When I use a naked I tend to dial my machine temp up a notch to compensate for the loss of back of the mouth feel, but then it borders on too hot.It could come down to the age and style of my roasts, basket size and machine setup too.   I do have a couple of nakeds, for various machines and they come out for training and showing off all the time. Definately an integral part of any barista tool arsenal.  
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  • adminadmin
    Hi guys - given 30-in-30's comments under Sydney cafes , thought I'd re-raise this for comment. -A
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  • 30in3030in30
    Thanks Admin  ;) Quote/unquote end of conversation in previous/separate subject thread...
    ... haven't really seen the benefit in taste of a naked extraction... but found it more of a useful tool for training and experimenting with tamp/distribution/dosing/etc... been using it for a short while.... use a lot more ground coffee too! Good article by Emily on naked coffee in Crema Magazine Winter 2007 Edition... there's a plug for the mag.
    Interested to hear other thoughts on naked pf.  Perhaps I just haven't perfected the art of naked extraction yet to see the difference in taste   :-?
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  • psaighpsaigh
    Interested to hear other thoughts on naked pf.
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  • AnutaAnuta
    I find, from a technical point of view, that it's harder to ensure a perfect shot through the naked pf then it is through spouts. While time, colour, crema and all the common factors might appear good it's always harder to get those same things through the naked pf because any small imperfections are more obvious, which means you have to work a little harder to pull an awesome shot. It becomes more challenging and exciting!
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    i'vr been getting some good results with mine at work but the main problem is that the creama collapses almost immediately which results in reduced body and mouth-feel - unless you hold the demitasse right under the pf, that is, which kind of defeats the purpose of having one in the first place!
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  • DoubleRistrettoDoubleRistretto
    I love the bottomless p/f - find i'm getting a beautiful honey-like extraction, without the metallic taste that you get with a traditional spout - it's great! -dR
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    i've managed to pull some amazing shots on mine as well but i'm still toot convinced that they have a commercial application...
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  • 30in3030in30
    I found using a naked pf useful in ironing out my distribution and tamping flaws.  I usually prepare milk-based coffees so might be why I haven't seen a significant difference in taste.  I kept the original basket with the pf - much deeper than my standard double basket so end up using a lot more ground beans! To be honest, I've not actually seen any cafes using a naked pf - probably because it's just not economical nor practical when it comes to running a busy business.
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    I know that Toby's Estate in Sydney run with a naked pf for their espresso - and we did too for awhile - but it's too damn messy and slow in a busy environment looks great but - I wouldn't mind hooking up a permanent camera to the machine, and project this onto a large screen - with the naked pf permanently in use - prob a bit impracticable but i'm sure it would look good!
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  • Unknown
    I think part of the reason Toby's uses a naked is because all black coffees are made with single origins, which I guess is better served through a naked to showcase all its nuances and for better control during the extraction process..
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