Fracino Retro lever machine

Ratrodzcafe · November 2012

The order finally went in for the machine friday just before 5,not too many options over here but in the end I went for a 2 group Fracino lever machine.Its a dual fuel so should be good for my mobile setup but just wondering if anybodies got any reviews, pros/cons or hands on experience(only got to play with one for a few minutes) maybe some ideas on adding a little more style to it.Its going into a '74 vw bus so think it might need a little something,its a bit shiney:)

Lacehim · November 2012

So, one of these then? http://www.fracino.com/machines/traditional-machines/retro.html Did you buy it direct or from an Australian supplier. If you don't mind me asking, what sorta $$$ where you talking? Fracino is the company that are making the Londinium I, II & III for Reiss. I haven't seen one of their machines, but from reviews of the L1 the build quality is good. It's going to be big. How big is this VW bus of yours? Can we have a piccy?

Brett H · November 2012

I think Rad is in Ireland so the Aussie distributor might not be the best choice. :thumb: Lacheim has asked all the questions I'd love answers for also! :coffee2:

Ratrodzcafe · November 2012

Thats the one Lacehim

Its actually a lot smaller than it looks, there was an astoria 2 group lever machine there too and it was a good 6-8 inches thinner but similar height though. The bus is an old vw baywindow,soon as its all back together i will put up a few picz. Oh and im in ireland but the machine is comming from the uk,all in with grinder and other few bits about

UNM · November 2012

360 cups per hour!! 6 cups per minute. One every ten secs. That would be quite a work out over an 8 hour day. I know it would never happen over a sustained period, but still. I am not sure how anyone could dose, tamp, load, pull the shot, hand it over, knock out spent puck and clean portafilter for next in forty seconds. I thought levers were slightly slower than pump machines, obviously not.

Lacehim · November 2012

on 1353284014:

I thought levers were slightly slower than pump machines, obviously not.

The only difference is that you pull a lever rather than press a switch, so no slower or quicker in my opinion. Your certainly going to get a few muscles in your arms Ratrodzcafe. We would all like to know more about the Fracino when you get it. They look like a quality machine, and it'll be great to get a review of them. There are suppliers here in Australia for the Fracino, but sadly there seems to be a rather steep markup on them at the Australian end. In the UK they are a very well priced machine.

Ratrodzcafe · November 2012

Should be here Monday so will get to have a good look over it and get some pics taken.

Brett H · November 2012

Cant wait to see the pics mate! I've never seen one in the wild but I know we have an Aussie distributor.

conikal · November 2012

on 1353193019:

If you don't mind me asking, what sorta $$$ where you talking?

?? .. 1750 UK pounds ? http://www.thecoffeemansouthwest.co.uk/fracino-lpg-machines.php Campared to Au$4600 ? ??? :'( http://www.coffeemachinesqueensland.com.au/list.cfm?sector_id=1 would you consider that a fair margin ? I wonder what a regular electric powered version would cost ?

Ratrodzcafe · November 2012

That's a pretty steep jump in price from uk

Lacehim · November 2012

The RRP here is a bit over the top, BUT who knows what you can negotiate. I did tackle them over price when I was looking for a new machine, and they said come in and see the machine and we'll talk about it.

conikal · November 2012

Hmm? ... negotiate ?.. CMQ have given themselves a LOT of negotiating room in that price ! If i were going to "negotiate" with them, my opening bid would be the landed cost of an L1 ( $2500 ? ) .. ...... and give them 5 mins to accept before i walk ! I can understand why Fracino m/c are not more numerous in Oz

conikal · November 2012

on 1353171557:

...maybe some ideas on adding a little more style to it.Its going into a '74 vw bus so think it might need a little something,its a bit shiney:)

I dont know if you noticed but.. Fracino have a "Bespoke Design" option on their m/c's that offers all kinds of finish options from gold plate to clear glass panels with polished interiors, I guess its too late for you now, but it may be worth a phone call to them..

http://www.fracino.com/finishing-touches/bespoke-designs.html

Ratrodzcafe · November 2012

I have no problem taking a saw to the back panel,a few l.e.ds lighting up the boiler looks pretty nice, maybe leopard print instead of the snakeskin,lol. Definatly needs a little colour though i think and maybe something a little different with the handles too.

Brett H · November 2012

Those people who were outraged by the red leather Silvia clearly did not see the above Fracino designs!!!

Lacehim · November 2012

on 1353927427:

Those people who were outraged by the red leather Silvia clearly did not see the above Fracino designs!!!

The red leather silvia was pretty rubbish though. They could have upgraded the poor wee machine, but na, slap on some leather and charge a few $100 dollars more. $$$. Idiots. I would actually 2 years down the track like to see how the leather is fairing. I like to see the machines above being made more individual though where required. I like the ones above, nice and out there!

conikal · November 2012

...maybe some ideas on adding a little more style to it.Its going into a '74 vw bus so think it might need a little something,its a bit shiney:)

More thoughts.. those large flat panels lend themselves to either custom paint ( airbrush artist ?) ..or even stick on vinyl images ( im pretty sure thats how Fracino do some of their designs) Get a suitable "Ratrod / Steampunk) image ,and have it transferred onto a adhesive vinyl sheet for DIY application ? ..OR.. Depending on how extreme you want to go, i could imagine a "Faux" liquor still exterior cover, made from old boiler parts, pipes, valves etc etc ? images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHwTgvkHtcHBfhXZ6x_SGFzgDBRQGM4l56QpE2eM90WFWLd60nmQ

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHwTgvkHtcHBfhXZ6x_SGFzgDBRQGM4l56QpE2eM90WFWLd60nmQ

Ratrodzcafe · November 2012

You read my mind with that pic conikal,steampunk moonshine coffee still:) Think you are right abt them wrapping in vinyl, can't really see it lasting long though with constantly heating/cooling the machine. Was thinking airbrush alright, something like an old weathered car, colour coat sanded through to primer kinda effect but it still a little one dimensional,the machine itself is pretty much a big chrome box,needs some sticky outy bits I think:)

Koffee_Kosmo · November 2012

Metalized vinyl is the answer http://www.topvinylfilms.com/catalog/Metallized_Vinyl-9-1.html

conikal · November 2012

on 1354054167:

You read my mind with that pic conikal,steampunk moonshine coffee still:) Think you are right abt them wrapping in vinyl, can't really see it lasting long though with constantly heating/cooling the machine.

I have had some clear adhesive vinyl on the top of my Isomac ( to protect the SS from cup scratches).. for nearly a year . No sign of it even trying to lift or shrink or discolor. ( and it got "steamed" when the pressurestat failed last month !)

BLrdFX · December 2012

on 1353965854:

More thoughts.. those large flat panels lend themselves to either custom paint ( airbrush artist ?) ..or even stick on vinyl images ( im pretty sure thats how Fracino do some of their designs) Get a suitable "Ratrod / Steampunk) image ,and have it transferred onto a adhesive vinyl sheet for DIY application ? ..OR.. Depending on how extreme you want to go, i could imagine a "Faux" liquor still exterior cover, made from old boiler parts, pipes, valves etc etc ?

Very, very nice!! Love to have that sitting in the kitchen

FreshCoffee2 · December 2012

I've been reading this with interest. Rancilio got it wrong with the red VINYL covered machine. It seems they dont really look around them or ask their importers and distributors much before making some of their decisions. If I recall correctly, they called it "animal friendly" leather. Machines covered in vinyl etc may look good on display before use, but they can look very very iffy once they have been put to work. Ultimately a coffee machine is a working device and as such will always look better over a period of time, if it has clean simple lines made from materials that are easy to clean and dont scratch or stain easily or take on a drab look. The price of equipment is "self levelling" and depends on a number of factors including the expectations of all the vendors concerned down the chain including the manufacturer at the top of the chain. If an importer or distributor is trying to sell at too high a price, he sells little. Sooner or later the manufacturer, if he is hungry for sales, steps in and advises the importer distributor to lift their game sales wise to help his manufacturing plant along, or he will start looking for others through which to sell. Some manufacturers are dynamic and on the move, and others are only "hobby manufacturers" content to run out a small number of units. Some type of machines are current models of choice in the market selling the most numbers, and others are "specialties" that only run out in very small numbers. Its all an individual thing governed by many factors. The web is a gigantic show room that bombards us with an endless supply of stuff to read and dream about, making it look like everyone is getting into stuff. But for all the hoo haa in the forums about lever machines, unless you are in the southern part of Italy where they are THE commercial espresso machine models of choice, elsewhere they are not much more than a reminder of a bygone era that trickle out in very small numbers by comparison to modern design units. Form a retail point of view, some of these "units" sell in such small numbers that it is hardly worth carrying them in the showroom. That may be why initially, an RRP (recommended retail price) is set at a high level....when a retailer sees the thing sitting there indefinitely with not a bite, usually the price starts to go in a downwards direction. And very often after the unit is sold, it is not replaced because there is no regular income in selling "specialty items" that turn over in miniscule numbers. The reality is, these forums can paint you pictures that simply lie, about what's really going on in the market. And this is also why with very small production / demand models, it isnt worth it for a manufacturer to sell through a system of importers and distributors....the numbers simply arent there.....and nowadays with the advent of the web, it has never been easier for a manufacturter to sell direct to an end user. Some manufacturers use this scenario as a basis for putting out there, that they and their products are so very exclusive that they wont appoint importers and agents because they want to be able to strictly control their own quality and supply....when the other side of the coin actually is, there arent going to be enough numbers in the game for importers to take the products on and the manufacturer will have to go it alone. So really, you can get quite biased outlooks from inside special interest forums, when discussing matters of business and finance. That's really what it all boils down to. Its the vendors choice if they do or dont want to haggle over a price, and a client that wants something, has to find a level of denaro where both he and the vendor are happy and remember, you only see what something is advertised for....you dont know what deal was struck by the individuals concerned in any given purchase / sale. Also of course, if a vendor is happy to let a unit sit in the showroom indefinitely without doing the usual things to try and move it along, then its his right to do so, and a client should be able to find a similar product to buy elsewhere. And of course that takes us back to a manufacturer putting the hard word on an importer that is not doing the numbers....... The machine concept in the picture above looks great. My guess would be it would sell in single numbers to a very very very micro sized part of the market. The price would be high due to micro production and lots of hand labour and expensive metals. Most clients I deal with would not be prepared to pay the ransom, and most retailers would never replace the first one they eventually sell with another after it has sold. Products like that are a great talking point in a showroom, but very very few will put their hand in their pocket to buy, and I know of instances where specialty units have been sold at below cost in the end to get them gone.

Ratrodzcafe · December 2012

Took delivery the other day of my new machine but didnt bother getting any pics yet. To be honest it looks good and all but its basically a chrome paperweight until i get it plumbed into the van. It really is going to need a few minor modifications to make it stand out. For starters the plastic grips on the handles and seem a little cheap,rough edges from casting and just feel too light or something. Custom resin or solid turnrd wooden ones i think will be first for sure. Not sure about wrapping it in vinal yet,but the main body is really gonna have to loose a little of its bling:) I think some extra brass pipes and hoses maybe to dress it up a little and maybe open up the back panel with some lexan to see the internals. On a side note got chatting to a few suppliers about coffee machines at a food\drink expo. Most seemed to think that the lever machines were being phased out with the modern push button type and saw them as being slow and unrelieable and not being able to compete with the more modern ones. Not really sure if they are up to date with their info or just dont bother looking at their competitors,either way i think i got a few of them thinking a little deeper about the mobile market!

BLrdFX · December 2012

I own a LM GS/3 and it has enough buttons goodies on it to satisfy any technocrat, yet I just ordered a Lever Machine because of its basic simplicity and lack of so many things to go wrong.

FreshCoffee2 · December 2012

To be honest, your machine is a work horse going into a work horse van. If you do your background work properly to gain clients, and have good signwriting on the van, there is no reason to try and make the coffee machine stand out. It already stands out and is in a coffee van. Its the coffee van yhat needs to stand out!

I advise against covering the machine with vinyl as per comments in previous post and actually, it could become a health hazard with milk residue getting into nooks and crannies where your vinul will eventually start to peel etc. ....and its not going to do a thing for you except of course, if you just want to do it because you do

I also advise to leave the machine in toto alone. Plumb it into its work place and start using it. You need to become fully familiar with it as it came, and not start trying to fix it when it aint broke yet !! WRT comments by equipment traders. The manufacturers will respond to whatever they think is a trend in the market that they need to run with, and as stated in a round about way above, lever machines have been and gone.....but remain in a small way. If this end of the market grows, manufacturers will simply manufacture a greater number of lever machines to meet the demand but again as already mentioned above, these forums paint a different picture to the reality concerning the actual level of interest in the market right now. In plain english......wrt lever machines all these forums make it look like "everyone's doinit" when in actual fact....very very few people really are "doinit" and if you were running your business wholly on the basis of selling lever machines....you would be starving and broke. Their comments re reliability and slowness need to be taken in the context of the market they are pitching to which is commercial and not home. I dont see any reason why a lever machine should be unrelaible and will put that one straight out of my mind however their comments re slowness could be considered legitimate enough. Compare the modus operandi of using a modern volumetric electronic commercial espresso machine ina cafe situation compared to a lever, and while speed of use per se between the two types may not be a real issue at all, the overall convenience factor of using a well set up touch button machine when busy and while managing other functions in the cafe set up (ie not just making espresso but taking money, getting muffins out etc etc etc) cannot be discounted. The lever machine is more "labour intensive" for the same outcome. And of course, it all depends on any individual's opinion. Hope that helps.

Ratrodzcafe · December 2012

Lotta good points FC:) As far as I can tell I'm the only one stupid enough to take a perfectly good vintage vw bus and chop it so as far as standing out goes I'm already off to a good start. The majority of the mobile vans here are the typical transit type with the machines out the back and a selection of food stuff hanging off the doors, also a few Piagio Apes(3 wheeled) but the legalities with them on the roads mean most are towed to location so not really much use as mobile advertising driving to and from location. My background is in hotels,nightclubs and cafes so I know the importance of good image and presentation when it comes to product sales. Having a bus that looks great on the outside is all well and good but if the inside looks like a surgical kitchen it's just not gonna look right. Steamed milk has a habit of finding its way into the most awkward spots and a few days left uncleaned is never a fun thing,especially in a small space:) I was never a fan of dealing with retail reps, I know it's their job to sell their brand but at least some knowledge of other products at least gives them the look of some intelligence(no offence to any reps intended). One guy there quoted me 6.5k for a 2 group machine, but as soon as I hinted that I knew a little about what I was talking about the he got quite flustered and had to get his college to fill some awkward moments. Seems over here good old fashioned commen sence is hard to come by:)

UNM · December 2012

If vinyl wrap on a car can stand years of Australian sun it can stand an espresso machine environment. The vinyl on my trailer is 9 years old and good nick. Some is black and gets extremely hot in the sun. It need not peel if done properly. Trick is to wrap each panel, not to wrap machine and then cut with a knife. That being said, custom airbrush work may be cheap and good quality. Find a young graffiti artist. I won't pronounce on whether it is necessary or not, haven't a clue of what your van layout is.

Brett H · December 2012

The airbrushed van is a great idea and you wouldn't find too many of your competitors driving such an audacious cafe on wheels. What a fabulous point of difference and catchy way to reinforce your brand. Fresh Coffee, your posts are like gold and seriously, I hope that you are archiving them. For anyone who is lucky enough to sample Cosmorex browns, the bag that they are shipped in is a graffic design/information master-stroke. I wonder how many commercial sleuths you get sniffing around Attilio? You must have a big broom! Rad, good luck with your venture. Successful businesses like Cosmorex seemingly leave nothing to chance right down to the consumables.

FreshCoffee2 · December 2012

Thanks for the kind words Brett, much appreciated.

BLrdFX · December 2012

on 1354055130:

Metalized vinyl is the answer http://www.topvinylfilms.com/catalog/Metallized_Vinyl-9-1.html

It is too bad that they don't make some of this stuff that resembles hand hammered copper :-)

Kelsey · December 2012

Elektra (and I believe Victoria Arudino) make a couple if models with that kind of look.

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