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After the old forum software breaking in a way that we were unable to fix, we've migrated the site to a new platform.

Some elements aren't working as we'd hoped - some avatars didn't survive the transition, and we're still having issues with attachments that weren't added as inline images, but we're hoping to have that all sorted out soon.

$200 crowdsourced thermoblock with PID as standard

KelseyKelsey
edited January 1970 in Off-topic
These guys want to build a $300 thermoblock machine with a PID that aims to be better than any single boiler on the market.

They reckon they've redesigned the thermoblock for better stability, it'll have a PID as standard and uses as many non-proprietary parts as possible for ease of servicability.

Interesting project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-controlled-espresso-machine
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  • Koffee_KosmoKoffee_Kosmo
    on 1323649456:
    These guys want to build a $300 thermoblock machine with a PID that aims to be better than any single boiler on the market. They reckon they've redesigned the thermoblock for better stability, it'll have a PID as standard and uses as many non-proprietary parts as possible for ease of serviceability. Interesting project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-controlled-espresso-machine
    I wonder if this kick-starter concept would be good for a new model and design of the KKTO Its got me thinking KK
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  • KelseyKelsey
    That thought occurred to me also. I think it'd be a great idea. Happy to help out, of course.
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  • beanflyingbeanflying
    Interesting to see someone having a go at designing a better mousetrap but I won't be adding my pledge to a saturated section of the market. By the time the tooling is done and it is anywhere near a showroom several $100kwill be needed to then be pushed around by the big retailers and squeezed on margins no thanks. Venture capital type startups like this are interesting but I have a very good mate who was squeezed out of his own business of 15 years after a major expansion with this sort of finance.
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  • Koffee_KosmoKoffee_Kosmo
    on 1323651887:
    Interesting to see someone having a go at designing a better mousetrap but I won't be adding my pledge to a saturated section of the market. By the time the tooling is done and it is anywhere near a showroom several $100kwill be needed to then be pushed around by the big retailers and squeezed on margins no thanks. Venture capital type startups like this are interesting but I have a very good mate who was squeezed out of his own business of 15 years after a major expansion with this sort of finance.
    For the roaster I was thinking of a prepaid beta tester concept at a discount so the tooling for the metal spinning can be paid for in the first run Small pledges can have roasted beans KK
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  • shape_shiftershape_shifter
    You can't half tell they are engineers can you  :D It's about time the 'little' people had a go and made something, it will shake the coffee world that's for sure when people realise how little you really do have to spend to get something that can often work better than what has been around for years...
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  • Brett HBrett H
    The Gee wasn't popular.  I can't see this being a run-away success event half the price of a Gee (after they became unpopular). I would love to be proved wrong!!!
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  • KelseyKelsey
    I think the GEE was a bit of a different story tho. They were trying to position it at premium level (almost like the BDB) with all the bells and whistles. And it was priced that way too. The problem is that it looks cheap and cheesy. By contrast, this machine WILL be cheap (and possibly cheesy!) and they make no bones about it. Of course, the proof will be in the cup. It'd be interesting if they released it as a kit.
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  • beanflyingbeanflying
    The Gee is basically an upmarket Sunbeam with a few tweaky bits. The biggest failing of the Gee locally it was really Prehyped to blazes then followed up with the average steam performance and possibly how it has been then marketed in Oz after release. I believe Crossland in the US are still doing ok with them. Now it will suffer to find a place if the the BDB holds up to longer term use. This one will if it gets near the market be copied to within an inch of it's life (badly) reduced in price and flogged off out of china like the typical Aldi, Delonghi, lower end Breville and Sunbeams. Still would love to see them trying to keep it to the suggested price by the time they finish R&D and tooling up.
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  • LacehimLacehim
    Question.  Can it have a lever instead of a pump?  ;D
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  • KelseyKelsey
    You could start your own crowdsourced lever design!
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  • askthecoffeeguyaskthecoffeeguy
    looks like a great initiative at a price that's right - I hope they manage to get it up and running and to stay on target and on budget!
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  • UNMUNM
    Don't know if anyone is interested in how this is progressing, but they now have a web site at http://zpmespresso.myshopify.com/ Even has its own forum. first production in May (Real Soon Now) and it is now officially named  the 'Nocturn' gotta love the tag line 'engineered from the grounds up' :D The blog has a Forbes (Russia) magazine interview. One thing of note - no warranty. The people getting first machines didn't buy the machine, but invested in the project so it will be interesting how this one plays out legally if there are major problems.
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  • RichardMRichardM
    on 1334631174:
    One thing of note - no warranty. The people getting first machines didn't buy the machine, but invested in the project so it will be interesting how this one plays out legally if there are major problems.
    The same kind of thing stands up where people buy shares in a cow so they can drink unprocessed milk (read up about people selling "Bath Milk" in health food stores for drinking, which is illegal if they know people are drinking it). If it stands up there, I'd say it'd stand up for this scenario (in Australia anyway).
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  • HatchyHatchy
    Pity only 240V if you'd donated $1000 It's closed up now - they got a fair sum too at over $300K!
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  • UNMUNM
    240V should be trivial if designed for a global market - my gaggia can be converted between 110 and 220 in a few minutes simply by replacing the pump and changing element wiring. The PID has universal power and the two  elements are designed to either be in parallel or series. I seem to recall the pump on the ZPM is supposed to be driven by a PWM signal and may not be a 110V pump (not certain of this). Perhaps the 2013 ETA for 220/240V is based on regulatory approval?
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  • beanflyingbeanflying
    Crawling it's way to some machines being finished. A cautionary tale for complex Kickstarter projects I guess. Update as of Yesterday http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-controlled-espresso-machine/posts Still going to interesting to see the finished results in action.
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  • LacehimLacehim
    Looks like an interesting project BF, but I can understand the slow place because putting a machine together from scratch is very time consuming.  Good luck to them though.
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  • derrilexderrilex
    Fuck thats ugly
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  • LacehimLacehim
    but cheap, and might be better than a crapy bottom of the range Sunbeam/Breville in the same price bracket!
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  • derrilexderrilex
    True, but it looks like a series 1 land rover. (no offense BF)
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  • C-manC-man
    I don't see how they are controlling the pressure?
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  • UNMUNM
    on 1348088300:
    I don't see how they are controlling the pressure?
    Arduino, I think.
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  • C-manC-man
    pity about the voltage
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  • UNMUNM
    on 1348095256:
    pity about the voltage
    Yes. Don't understand why they designed it that way. Easy to design for 110 or 220 using same components for both but wire differently.
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  • C-manC-man
    because the Yanks think only they are important.
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  • LacehimLacehim
    on 1348114368:
    because the Yanks think only they are important.
    They probably have a big enough market to start with just suppling the US, and they don't have to stuff about with international shipping.  I'm sure that if it takes off they will make some changes and produce a 240v version.
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  • C-manC-man
    on 1348114368:
    because the Yanks think only they are important.
    I know because I was one of them.
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  • beanflyingbeanflying
    I was having a poke around and there is a collection of Aussies who stumped up $$ to get a 110V machine when the first lot rolls off the line. To then have to turn around and buy a 12-1500W stepdown transformer for additional $. WTF would you want to do that to your kitchen for a start and to be the overseas tester for a machine with no performance history or locally supported warranty. Top that off with buying from a fresh startup with no history :doh: Based on niggles etc that even the big appliance makers have I would be letting the dust settle on batch one minimum and waiting for some real user feedback.
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  • C-manC-man
    I agree, but lets keep an eve on it anyway as it has some interesting features. At least the transformer is cheaper than the extra 1K they wanted.
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  • UNMUNM
    on 1348126805:
    on 1348114368:
    because the Yanks think only they are important.
    I know because I was one of them.
    according to all press I have read, Gleb and Igor are Russian. I haven't been following this project closely, but have not seen any answer for why they chose what seems to be the more difficult path of having a single 110 volt element rather than two that can  be wired in series or parallel depending on destination country. The designers were well aware of this option during the funding phase prior to final prototyping. I was very keen on this way back at the beginning, but they do seem to have lost their way somewhat - the software is still really primitive which is extremely worrying for a supposedly open source project.
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