Newbie in distress

JonnyJonJon

Hi There,

First of all this forum looks great, looking forward to exploring it

The reason I have been looking for coffee experts ( I am sure you all are :D ) is the following:
I recently purchased The Infuser with the Smart Grinder Pro from Breville which has been incredible without a bump for approximately 6 weeks.

Suddenly one day I could not extract a drop of coffee with the exact same setting on the grinder ( 7 ). Pressure gauge would go crazy straight away to max and nothing has been able to be extracted since.

I sent it to be fixed they could not find anything wrong with it and they said the coffee comes out perfectly. Still can't pull any shot unless I grind incredibly coarse. I returned it and got a new one, first coffee was incredible, then .. not a drop.

Any thoughts on what might have changed ? or what I might be doing wrong?

I have been using the same 3 types of beans since I got the machine and currently using the first of the 3 that I have been getting ( same grinding settings for all of them which was never an issue)

I did set the grind to much coarser today and the first shot was great ( more watery but at least it would extract something ), then ... next cup not a drop being extracted with the same settings.

Could it come from the grinder ?

I do take really good care of the machines and clean them regularly.

thx a lot in advance ! I haven't had my morning coffee for almost 2 weeks and nobody seems to be able to help on the other forums ...it s getting hard :D

Dry_bean.

Welcome to the forum JJJ, hope someone can help with your problem.

mycuppa

JJJ, Firstly welcome. I don't have any experience with the gear you are using but you may wish to consider the following:- Your machine has been designed to emulate (in a basic way) the process used by higher-end commercial rotary pump systems such as the LM/Slayer/Synesso type machines that support variable pressure (either mechanical or electronic) - that is, to ramp up the pump pressure. Pre-infusion is not a new concept and even may of the automatic machines (grind+dose+tamp+brew) - particularly the higher end models - use various methods to "wet" or soak the puck prior to running the full pressure extraction. The quickest and easiest way to eliminate potential causes is to qualify out some variables. Do not discount the possibility it can be coffee beans - regardless of whether you have prior history of success and trust.........it is a likely candidate. Under-developed beans in particular can cause this precise problem even on machines that do not pre-infuse. The beans look OK, they seem to grind OK, but they choke the machine 9 times out of 10. Been there.....experienced that ! Grab some other beans - from a supermarket or other..........and run them through. If you are still having choking issues, then step away from the gear and take a moment to think about if you may be over-dosing, tamping too hard. Leaving the grinder on the same setting is not always the answer. There will be a zone which includes either side of your historic setting that is where you need to play - which of course comes down to the dose. The other aspect you must keep in mind is that grinder adjustments take a few shots to materialize. The most common trap for newbies is they make a coffee, decide the grind needs to be finer, make the adjustment and run another coffee, realize it needs to be finer (because the adjustment had not worked through retained grounds), then proceed to make adjustment, coffee, adjustment ........and choke !. Ambient temperature (not your machine temp) also plays a role in affecting the behavior of the combination for bean+grind+dose at any particular moment. Less likely is that your grinder may be causing this problem. It may have "slipped" and your historical reference points are no longer valid, e.g. what you think was normal could be very fine. The reason you can extract a coffee first up when you have not been using the machine and grinder for some time is because I am assuming you are not purging the stale retained grounds from your grinder beforehand. In other words, you may be filling your first/initial coffee with "dead" grounds that will not react correctly when extracted, thus allowing a flow of dark brown liquid lacking crema, body, flavour and sweetness. Therefore, when you attempt a second coffee soon afterwards, you are receiving a greater portion of fresh grounds that will behave differently during the espresso extraction process. To dial in the grinder setting, you need to ensure you are using fresh grounds, so run at least 2+ shots worth into the bin beforehand. Yes, it's wasting coffee but you are not going to get a reference point. If I was a gambling man I would be placing my $$ on technique rather than faulty gear. Good luck.

JonnyJonJon

Thank you so much for all of this, it is a rally good starting point. I will process all of these informations and get back to you as soon as I have tried all of the above. mycuppa, do you mean that I should grind 2 porter filter worth of coffee before putting it in the coffee machine ? I did buy 2 other kind of beans that had the exact same behaviour. Thx again for this reply. JJJ

Brett H

Welcome JJJ and thank you MyCuppa! A brilliant and generous response.... As per usual!!  :thumb:

Koffee_Kosmo

Welcome JJJ Adding to the excellent post above Coffee bean age & storage is also a very important factor As an example if you have beans exposed to the air they will absorb the moisture ( just like salt ) Old beans will oil up On both occasions you will experience more tighter grind particle binding when tamping, and in turn choke the machine as the ground beans are practically glued together when tamping pressure is applied Hope you see what is meant by my post KK

LeroyC

I'd put my money on the grinder being the problem. Yes it could be other things for sure, but if you've tried a few different beans it's probably not them that are the issue. I haven't used a Breville Smart Grinder but I've owned two Sunbeam grinders that operate in a very similar way. I experienced the same thing with my first Sunbeam and only fixed it by removing all the washers that were 'shimming' the burrs on the shaft (there were 4 there when I got it). Then slowly adding back one at a time until I got it working right. It was frustrating as sometimes it seemed like the grind would be even more course after adding another shim, but I persevered and got there in the end. The good thing about the Smart Grinder Pro is that you can adjust the burrs using the 'BURR ADJUSTMENT'!! Hallelujah! Geez I wish the Sunbeam had this feature. Try 'loosening' your burrs then tighten them up a little at a time until you can get the right grind again in the range that Breville recommend. There should be instructions on how to do this in the manual, and I think there's even some online tutorials as well. Good luck.

FreshCoffee2

I also sit firmly in the "I dont think this is a grinder problem as such" but will be happy to  learn something new if it turns out that it is (a grinder problem). And if it is, I feel Breville service should be doing the servicing under guarantee not the consumer. Its new, its under guarantee, and it should be fit for purpose without modification. For the rest of it,  does Breville have a new client help line that you can call while the machine is under guarantee? If so, my feeling is you need to call them for several reasons: A) you need the help If this is a known equipment problem of some kind, they will refer you back to a repairer for a specific equipment service C) if this is a known equipment USE problem for the models, they will be able to advise D) if this is NOT a known problem, they do need to know what is happening out there in client land and do the problem solving for future reference... For me the key is that you had the first machine for 6 weeks and it worked perfectly...and then it didnt. What you didnt say is if it worked perfectly one day and not the next - for the same bag of coffee OR if it worked perfectly one day and not the next but that was the day you changed to a NEW supply of beans, OR if it worked perfectly one day and then you went away for a few days or weeks and came back and then it didnt work well again, in which case I would look straight at the bag (container) of beans you were using at the time. If you went away, was the bag/container of beans sealed or not? Was it in the fridge or not? Were the beans left in the hopper of the grinder or not? Do you live in a humid location or not? What i am getting at, is you need to be specific about the beans you have been feeding the grinder, because such can occur; 1) if you change your supply of beans to something new or different OR 2) when beans are left out in a humid environment and they suck up a lot of moisture (and perhaps I have covered something that someone above already covered, but with more specific questions). Additionally.....we know nothing about your coffee making technique and equipment management skills and your ability in dialling in the grinder to the machine. But again, in the first instance the equipment went well for 6 weeks before the problem happened. Suggest take a look at supply of beans and/or operator technique per above first, before we point fingers at the gear especially in view of a) first set of gear said to be working fine after exploratory service and b) unless this is a known problem, it is unlikely that a second set of new gear picked at random could have the same problem. And really, this also takes us back to a "help line" if such exists. Good luck, and hope that helps.    

Moon

Howdy ... Instant drinker  :laugh: Do you have a friend that has a good coffee machine setup who doesn't live too far away?

JonnyJonJon

hi All! First of all thank you so much for all of these really helpful replies, I did learn a lot from them. It has now been a week that I have been trying to get my head around my problem. The coffee machine being brand new I ruled it out straight away and focused on the grinder. It seems like it was the problem, the grinder definitely went out of whack and my original setting that I got used to are not the right ones anymore. I cleaned the grinder as much as I could and worked my way from pretty coarse to finer every 3 cups to finally hit the sweet spot of a very decent shot ( for supermarket beans ) of 60mm in 28sec on average. I did try different coffee beans and of course had to adjust the settings to the new beans but on average the settings of the grinder are very similar. So thank you all, I can now appreciate my morning, lunch and afternoon coffee as per usual bottom line : Grinder ( especially electronic ones ) are not 100% reliable, even with a timer and everything. JJJ

Brett H

Well done mate!  The next step is to feed it some awesome fresh-roasted Browns and you'll not get any better than the sponsors here.  Do yourself a favour and continue the experimentation and research.  Remember, the key to great coffee and bragging rights is less about the gear and more about the beans!!

FreshCoffee2

Hi there, glad you have started to get your head round the equipment and coffee. Hope you don't mind me clarifying some points, according to the quoted passages: "...It seems like it was the problem, the grinder definitely went out of whack and my original setting that I got used to are not the right ones anymore. ...worked my way from pretty coarse to finer every 3 cups to finally hit the sweet spot of a very decent shot..." and "...bottom line : Grinder ( especially electronic ones ) are not 100% reliable, even with a timer and everything......." Not trying to be difficult, rather...trying to be helpful....so...grinder went out of whack, not reliable...? Not to my way of thinking.  From what you have written, you have now understood how to determine a grind setting from basic principles. You have achieved the right grind, for a particular supply of beans, on a particular day, for a certain factor of freshness or staleness, for the particular moisture content in the beans in your environment. That's excellent, but doesn't indicate the grinder has gone out of whack. Rather, it indicates that you are now aware of how to determine a grind setting for coffee....as the coffee changes over time...  This is absolutely critical for anyone using a machine and grinder to make coffee (properly). Well done  Note, if you live in a humid environment, or in an environment where humidity fluctuates markedly, expect to make frequent enough changes in grinder adjustment. And....You will get far better results / coffee from your equipment from using nice fresh beans rather than supermarket packet beans (because beans in supermarkets can be quite old / stale...). In fact when you change from supermarket to a fresh supply, you can expect to make a large grinder adjustment.

GeekKopi

What he (above) said. There are days where I just cannot dial in my grind. My mornings are usually consistent but then as the weather fluctuates during the day I'm porting sink shots. Overtime I learned to predict how to adjust my grind based on the weather and freshness so keep practicing JJJ. You will get there.

Koffee_Kosmo

Don't forget that the burs get clogged and need periodic cleaning And the burs also wear over time and that also influences settings on the dial They in turn will eventually need replacing KK