San Marino Machines

andybud

I have been making coffee for 15 years and most of my experience is on La Cimbalis (which I love).

I have recently started using at work a San Marino and it's driving me crazy!!!

The steam arms are so powerful that the milk almost burns before having any control over the foaming process. I have to plug up the holes with tooth picks just to be able to use the damn thing.

Is it just me?

nunu

No, it's not you.  The standard 4-hole steam wand tip on San Marino's would do a good job frothing 1.5L jugs of milk.  For a 600mL jug it's just too much.  A combination of plugging the holes as well as not opening the valve all the way might help.

nzroaster

Although I agree with youon loving the Cimbalis Andy, I actually prefer the powerful steam on the san marinos. We have a host of jugs down to 200ml and once you get used to the speed at which you need to work, you start loving the fact that you can do your milk nearly instantly.

Lukey

there 300ml jugs jase. if your finding the steam pressure too much make sure it's around the 1.1 bar. we actually had the steam arms on our klub changed to the san marino ones. not because of the pressure but the steam hole arrangement. they're quite close together which means the steam blows in a more straight direction as opposed to a wide dispersion. but yes you might have to change your technique slightly. luke

Lukey

No, it's not you.

mattyj

sorry mate i'll have to disagree with that. i'm not a fan of opening up the steam valve partially. there's a reason why u need to have the valve completely open.

Hey Lukey, wanna expand on that reason? I love to learn!

nunu

If you turn the steam pressure down coming from the boiler, and leave the valve fully open, wouldn't that be the same as only partially opening the valve?  You could get the same result if you measure the pressure at the end of the tip.  Doesn't make sense to keep having to open up the machine to adjust the steam pressure for varying volumes of milk frothing.

Lukey

If you turn the steam pressure down coming from the boiler, and leave the valve fully open, wouldn't that be the same as only partially opening the valve?

nunu

As I understand it, there are external and internal variables associated with the coffee making process.  I'll explain: Internal - Things under your control: Steam pressure, brew temperature, brew pressure, grind size, dosing quantity, etc. External - Things outside your control: Atmospheric conditions, milk variables (batch to batch variability), these things you have to tune your coffee-making process to overcome. Looking back, I made an error in judgement about partially opening the valve.  The only thing you can really do is speed up your texturing technique to account for the rapid heating of the milk.

Lukey

Looking back, I made an error in judgement about partially opening the valve.

lars

In my experience, the only machine worse for blasting the milk is the La San Marco. Surely they must be aware of prolem. Just wondered if anyone knows why it's something they don't fix - is it because they prefer the good 'ole froth in Europe, or because 90% of their coffee in Italy is non-milk? Or just a design fault. Anyone know? L

FreshCoffee2

Lars, you have to place yourself in the manufacturers "shoes". There really is no problem to fix. All these machines are designed to be used in busy circumstances where good / large capacity is required. Frothing / texturing / steaming ultra small quantities of milk really does not enter into the equation. After that, espresso machines are like any other piece of machinery...some individuals like one type, other individuals like another type and ultimately, the operator  is required to adjust their technique to suit whatever piece of equipment they are using. Regardz, FC.

lars

Fairy nuff FC. I guess the only question is what is recommended when you're using one of these 'brute-type' units in fairly low-use times. Obviously we all grew up with the 'turn the steam wand on full' methodology for steaming, so what are you saying is the solution in terms of 'the operator adjusting their technique'- ie are you saying (see above discussion) partially opening the valve is the correct solution at these times? - L

nunu

It's a case of speeding up your technique to accomodate the faster heating of the milk.  Forming a whirlpool and texturing must be done much quicker. Reducing the pressure through the steam wand (either by adjusting it inside the machine, or partially opening the steam valve) creates condensation inside the steam wand, producing wet steam.

One-a-day

So , by not fully cranking the valve you leave an obstruction to make turbulence and foul the flow up? Who'd think steam was so complicated