Should you keep your commercial machine on 24/7

chefrob · February 2007

A rep from my coffee supplier did some staff training the other day, and he suggested that the machine should never be switched off, and that after each pull, the portafilters should be re-attached to keep the handles at a good temperature. What do you reckon?

One-a-day · February 2007

Knowing nothing about commercial machines, wouldn't leaving them on 24/7 reduce their service life and increase the chances of electrical faults. As well as slightly increase the power bill not to mention the waste of power?

Lovey · February 2007

G'day Chefrob, I'll go for the second part of your question first in relation to re-attaching the portafilters after each shot. I believe that this is standard practice in the commercial world (it should be anyway) to maintain the temperatures in the pf's. Thermal stability throughout the machine, including the pf's, is a necessity. The second part, about leaving the machine on 24/7. This has been, and probably will be, debated ad-infinitum. There are pro's and con's for each scenario, ie turning it off when not in use, or leaving it on 24/7. Some components in the machine respond well to being at a constant heat (being left on all the time) and this will extend their lifespan. Some components, on the other hand, will have a shortened life span by being left on all the time. I don't think the power consumption would vary greatly between being left on 24/7 and being turned off at night. The power required to get the machine up to temp in the morning would be quite high, with the elements switched on for longer periods to heat the boiler up. I think a bigger risk than electrical problems would be water connection failures. If a water pipe or connector fails in the middle of the night, the damage this water could do would be huge (depending on the surrounding area of course.) Hope this helps.

askthecoffeeguy · February 2007

For my five cents worth we always leave the coffee handles in the machines (except overnight) to ensure temperature stability. The alternative is that a cold handle goes into a warm group head, and the pf rapidly expands to meet the heat of the group head, causing an imperfect seal, and poor extraction. The other downside of putting a cold pf into a warm machine is that, as the pf rapidly heats, the coffee can sometimes be scolded. As for turning the machine off overnight, unless its a domestic machine, why would you bother? I get people cueing for coffee at my joint from before we open - who can afford the downtime! Also, the way I understand it is that its like wear and tear on your car - all that constant turning on and off just places added strain on your parts. Besides which, many commercial machine have a 'standby' feature which enables the boiler to power down to minimal usage, but still me ready to spring back up again at short notice! A bit like me, really... P

nzroaster · February 2007

There are pros and cons to leaving your machine on overnight. Best to take the advise of the person who services the machine(or is the warrenty repairer) as each machine is different. One argument is that the constant on/off every night does more damage, not to mention that it takes just as much power to heat it up from cold as it does to keep it hot overnight. Another is thatif you leave it on and a limit switch fails you may have a flooded shop. I was once told it comes down to the type of person you are. If you would leave a washing machine running while you are out of the house then leave it on.

FreshCoffee2 · February 2007

This is a question that pops up from time to time and if you do a search in this very site you will find this has already been discussed. Nevertheless.... You can do whatever you like but you have to do it with your eyes wide open. In the last 22 years I have personally had 3 major floodings through leaving the equipment on.... If you leave it switched on, you have to leave the water on.....no one knows when a flexible water pipe is going to fail. All three of my floodings have been due to failure of flexiBLE water inlet pipes, and each went unattended and unchecked overnight. Some people turn their machines off.....but still leave their water on. My advice is you switch the machine off, AND you turn off the water....there is no point switching the machine off electrically and leaving the water pressurised as it is the water pipe that most commonly fails. The last flood I suffered in such a circumstance did $18,000.00 damage, so the very last thing I do before locking the door behind me & going home is to check the water to the coffee machine is OFF. In addition to the above there have occasionally been machines that have shorted in their main switch...this could cause a fire...and it might not. In addition to the three unchecked occurences I mentioned above, we have suffered occasional water failures during the course of the working day...but we were there to stop it immediately. If you are at home asleep, your equipment could be flooding the office

flatwhite · February 2007

Hey FC, I assume you have a dishwasher in your cafe, do you turn the water off to that also? Cheers, Flat

FreshCoffee2 · February 2007

My business is not a cafe, we are a specialty roaster and espreso machine importer....so we dont have / need a dishwasher....I dont have any experience with anything other than the flexible water pipes as fitted specifically to esp machines. Regardz, FC.

chefrob · February 2007

Thanks for all of your replies, I'll turn the machine off, and definately turn off the water supply. I'll also have a look at the dishwasher and the washing machine water supply. Thanks again for your comments.

over_extracted · February 2007

Hi over many years i have never turned off the water or the machine,and had no problems at all but if you do turn the machine off... ..DO NOT FORGET TO TURN ON THE WATER ON IN THE MORNING. see ya OE......

One-a-day · February 2007

A bit of a sideline to this topic I guess, I've never had a washing machine blow a hose and we've left our cold water on to the machine for the last 7 or more years. So if your coffee machine costs more than the average washing machine you'd think it should have as good if not better industrial strenght hoses and pressure fittings.

FreshCoffee2 · February 2007

I take your point. The inlet water lines supplied with commercial esp machines seem to be quite different to those supplied with washing machines and dish washers. The actual water line inside of the external stainless steel "braiding" is a kind of "soft" black rubber that does seem to degrade over time particularly if exposed to heat. This is quite different to the kind of harder "plasticised" hoses fitted to washers. It is not the pressure fittings or end fittings themselves that fail. Most often the failure is somewhere along the actual hosing OR, at the point where the end fittings are crimped or vulcanised or just plain joined to the hosing. So to answer the unspoken question directly.....just because you (or we) might leave your (our) washing machines and dishwashers pressurised forever with little chance of a failure, doesnt mean we can dismiss the probability of a water hose failure to an espresso machine ( it'll never happen to me syndrome). They dont use the same types of hoses and in my type of business I have seen the failures happen often enough. Regardz, FC.

sketchy · February 2007

I agree with one a day. Don't buy the cheap hoses, and check with the suplier how long the life span of the hose is. i change my hoses on a yearly bases. LE

FreshCoffee2 · February 2007

G'day Sketchy, I see where you're coming from as well but in most cases it is not the act of someone buying "cheap" hosing....the hoses are as supplied standard with the espresso machine. No one can tell you how long they will last. Some last 20 years, others last many years less! Some last a few days. If you are in the habit of turning off every day at the close of business, you dont need to change hoses annually unless they fail and if they do, it happens while you're there so no damage is done. You might replace a perfectly good hose with a faulty new one and have a failure within the next year OR, it might never happen! I have no problem turning off when I leave, and back on in the morning, so dont really understand the amount of resistance this line of management elicits whenever I advise people to do this. For peace of mind you could look at replacing the standard supplied hose with hydraulic pressure rated hosing but then you would still be relying on the joins between the hose and the end fittings. Regardz, FC.

flatwhite · February 2007

Sorry FC, no doubt you have mentioned that many times before. The reason I asked is because I work for a commercial dishwasher manufacturer and very rarely do we hear of issues with supply hoses and back in my coffee machine [amongst other things] repair days they were pretty much the same breed of hose. Add to that I'm pretty sure all coffee machines run of the cold water supply, whereas dishwashers are hot water fed and I would expect hot water more likely to cause failures. Opinion is no substitute for experience however and obviously you have had some issues...my final suggestion would be local water pressure, which in some areas can peak over 1000kpa at night due to the low demand.

sketchy · February 2007

Hopefully everyones machine has a pressure reducing valve. LE

melbournecoffeeguy · February 2007

For my five cents worth we always leave the coffee handles in the machines (except overnight) to ensure temperature stability. The alternative is that a cold handle goes into a warm group head, and the pf rapidly expands to meet the heat of the group head, causing an imperfect seal, and poor extraction.

I personally recommend to always leave handles in the heads when the machine is on this stops the seals from wearing out prematurly. Another reason to leave machines on is incase the anit vaccum valves fail and suck milk into the boiler......

AND NEVER SOAK STEAM PIPES CLEAN THEM AFTER EVERY USE! >:(

One-a-day · February 2007

I can see it now the Pirtek espresso machine hose service crew,

espressopronto · September 2007

Go on, leave it on... i dares ya! But seriously, it does take an awful long time to heat up in the morning if you turn it off (discovered this accidently one time when cleaners turned it off at night! aahhh!)

over_extracted · September 2007

:D That happend to me too once . Had a lonnnnnng line of people wanting coffee,talk about work preassure ;D.

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