How long until you ask them to leave?

21_Grams · February 2004

Here is an issue I am having in my cafe: We keep having customers who drop in with their laptop computers, study books, highlighters and mobile telephones. They order one coffee, and then sit there in our very limitted seating for three hours and finish their term papers. Now, after about 30 minutes I start getting quite agitated, as the cafe is full and we need those chairs. I am going to start asking them to leave after 45 minutes. What does the rest of the indusrty have to say about this?

FreshCoffee2 · February 2004

I understand your point of view but think it would be imprudent to ask them to leave until you have given fair warning about your change of policy. Despite them in dollar terms being the clients you actually dont want or need, it never looks good to leave someone with a "bad taste in their mouth" about the "unfair treatment" they will perceive to have received from you when you kick them out (nicely). Therefore suggest you somehow give fair warning about a change in policy, with plausible explanation, seeking THEIR ASSISTANCE to move on after a fair period has passed without them ordering anything further from you. I think 45 minutes is too long, suggest say 10 minutes max after they have actually finished whatever they ordered. This is actually, a very long time to do "nothing" in. This unfortunately will have the potential to make it look like you are paranoid and spying on customers to see when they have finished so you can start timing their eventual time of departure. On the other side of the coin, some clients dont stop to think and therefore dont understand they are stopping you in the pursuit of your hard earned income, while occupying what amounts to real estate upon which you are paying rent to reserve for the actual paying clientelle. Even though it is not your "fault", whether you end up with egg on your face or not will depend on the way you handle this perrenial problem. Someone else? FC.

FreshCoffee2 · February 2004

Further to... Just a suggestion, but you could look at the european way of getting the client to pay for the real estate by the usual method but I guess it would require a change in decor: a) Coffee for "standing" clients at the usual price. The client stands at the counter, or sits on a stool at the counter or around a "hitching rail bench" around the cafe; b) Coffee with "table service", say a minimum charge of $9.90. That price is not enough to be totally outrageous, however will be quite enough to stop people sitting down unless they are going to order more than just a cuppa. You can justify this by explaining that in terms of coffee, it represents the price of 3 cups at around about the going city rate which is the minimum your new policy allows for to occupy one table / or / 1 cup each for 3 people to occupy the table for their cup etc. Just a thought...whaddayathink? FC.

21_Grams · February 2004

Yes, thanks for the answers. I guess the idea may be to start educating customers on cafe etiquette. Hard to do politely isn't it? I may just begin by spouting off stories about how much I love my Italian customers - they come in, order an espresso, it lands in front of them, they slam it back, chase it with sparkling water, and then dash out the door - total transaction time: 5 minutes!

Unknown · March 2004

That's interesting, I was lead to understand that coffee Italian style involves drinking fresh water first to cleanse the palate and allow the coffee taste to linger. The long serving customer - if the shop is low on customers they will make it look busy. If their table is needed why not simply say," Excuse me sir/madam other customers need your table".

Unknown · March 2004

I take your second point but am confused by the first. As understand it the drinking of coffee in the place of its birth is not a ritual, just a fact of life, unlike in other sundry countries that discovered espresso last week and are trying to turn it into a ritual and add credibility where it never existed. Mal Real Koffee Politik.

Unknown · March 2004

I take your second point but am confused by the first. As understand it the drinking of coffee in the place of its birth is not a ritual, just a fact of life, unlike in other sundry countries that discovered espresso last week and are trying to turn it into a ritual and add credibility where it never existed. Mal Real Koffee Politik.

30sec_pour · April 2004

Hi Quite the conundrum! In Singapore with its high population density the problem is seriously out of control. One way cafe owners are trying to combat the situation is with discretely placed signs, informing patrons to reframe from studying or using laptops for extended periods to ensure other customs may make use of the table facilities. Then going on to apologise for any inconvenience. Just one of many possible solutions. Regards 30sec_pour

Unknown · May 2004

I too get the same sort of thing in my cafe, limited space, lots of customers & luckily only 2 backgammon boards, so they get a coffee and play for hrs,during the day its cool, but at night i too need the chairs. (solution)i treat everyone like a friend when they first walk in and tell them, when i get to know them, if i need their table when it gets busy "you'll understand" etc... Now they all do as i say without me even saying a word. Good luck oh & ill have a dopio ristreto short black while im here.

mimmo124 · May 2004

Where I work we have external seating that needs to be brought in at the end of the night to prevent theft and vandalism. To bring these tables and chairs in we have 'special' doors. The only issue is if people are loitering on the inside and not drinking or consuming anything. You need at least two staff to bring these tables and chairs in, so some nights two staff are being paid to stand around and wait for the customers to leave after everything else has done. Some customers dont seem to get the drift, there are 8 tables and about 50 chairs stacked outside the doors, and they are the last people in the restaraunt. Step one : would you like another coffee? General answer "no we are fine"....... Step two: repeat step one in 5 mins time? same result. Step three: start "cleaning" wiping tables/hanging around final customers. Step four: turn music, heating/cooling off, start moving tables around patrons. Ask for if you can get them anything else, the bill etc, "no no we are fine"....... Where do you go from here without specifically asking them to leave? Mimmo

admin · January 2005

Hi guys - towards the end of last year, we had several comments from customers of one of Sydney's favourite espresso bars, about their restrictive attitude on customers who lmake a minimal order. This cafe (in Sydney's Newtown) serves excellent espresso, but has limited space, and is also close to one of Sydney's major hospitals. It turns out they have a policy of not allowing customers in groups, where one customer orders but the others in the party don't order a coffee. One woman (who went with her husband) was particularly annoyed when he ordered, and one of the staff came over to advise her that she would have to order too, if they wanted a coffee. Seems a little extreme in an easygoing country like Australia, however the cafe is busy, and sometimes short on space. Is this legitimate commercial policy, or pushing the boundary on customer service too far? Admin.

FreshCoffee2 · January 2005

Going only on what you have written above Admin: "Exclusivity" gone mad? Seems a bit of a contradiction, usually in a service industry you have to bend over backwards to please your clients...what act of god or parliament could possibly allow cafes like this to trade in direct contradiction to the normal laws of selling? Are clients prepared to take that kind of treatment? I wouldn't go there again if myself and wife were subjected to that kind of arrogant treatment. Should this cafe be "outed"? It is understood that business owners need to run their businesses in whatever way they see fit, however I'm not sure this means that they need not take any notice of what their client base requires of them in return. Perhaps the situation could be handled in a much more client friendly manner by adopting say the Italian policy of different rates for stand up as opposed to sit down service. E.G."stand up" coffee could be say $2.20, and coffee "only" at a table at say $6.60 per cup with a minimum of 2 cups, and say, coffee at a table accompanied with the purchase of any other item or meal comes down to $4.40 etc etc. People generally respond to being treated with a bit of dignity, will still probably want to sit down, it is their choice, and I imagine they will pay if the coffee and or service is thought to be good enough. No? Cheers, FC.

bigiain · February 2005

Despite them in dollar terms being the clients you actually dont want or need, it never looks good to leave someone with a "bad taste in their mouth" about the "unfair treatment" they will perceive to have received from you when you kick them out (nicely).

Keep in mind that arguement cuts both ways, as a cafe customer it can be pretty annoying to queue up outside your favourite cafe while its obvious that there are people sitting down who are clearly finished eating and drinking but are still sitting there using the cafe as their office. One (possibly unwanted) customers dissatisfaction could sometimes be significantly outweighed by the good perceptions gained by a crowd of people waiting for a table... I will admit to having spent long periods of time sitting in the same cafe, but if I'm just lounging and reading I still make a point of ordering something every 20 or 30 mins, and I'll leave if I've been there a while and it looks like the place is getting busy and other customers might get turned away... big

dill · August 2005

I'll give it from a customers point of view. 1. If the product is good I'll be back. 2. If the surroundings (ambience) plus 1,I'll be back. 3. If the staff are friendly plus 1 & 2, I'll be back. 4. If I am made to feel uncomfortable chances are I won't be back. 5. If I am asked to leave I won't be back and I'll be telling everyone don't go there. Today I went to a electronics store (Jaycar)and bought a $4 computer cable. Spent 30 minutes with the assistant while I asked advice. There were other customers. If I go to any of the other stores I get exactly the same outstanding service. I waited 15 mintues for a shop assistants who were serving other people not just fluffing about. Other times I have been there and walked straight in and bought a over $1000 of goods and walked straight out. I tell people about this company because of the product and the service they offer. No matter what the business you will get customers that will pay a lot of money or a little. But if you don't get word of mouth business. See you later. Unless you have the most unbelieveable product that is unique, could be different story but cafe's, coffee shops and restaurants are everywhere. It's not too hard to find some where else. If people are there after closing time kick 'em out. Dill

ausrs · August 2005

sometimes it does however get embarrasing

the other week a well known local solicitor came in with his "date" after ordering coffee they proceeded to almost have sex in the shop ........honestly not that good for business !!!!!!! other customers started to complain so after 45 mins they were asked politely to leave ...should have suggested a motel room

Honest_Gaza · September 2005

....and from another customer's point of view. I, and my work colleagues, will frequently meet to have a coffee and discuss business issues. I am of the opinion that if the shop is busy....then move on (after 10-15mins of finishing your coffee) unless you are going to order more coffee. If the shop is not so busy....then feel free to stay a little longer. I'm sure that most owners and customers are reasonable in this. I can certainly understand that an owner would see a customer who is sitting in his shop for more than an hour drinking only one coffee as "abusing the friendship somewhat"

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