Diadema junior plus vs ECM barista vs lelit mara

Brett_H

Cool... look, any of your common all-garden variety HX machines on the market will have many of the same parts internally. They all work the same way and they all do the same job. If you buy from the internet without a tech setting it up you risk some of the setting inside your machine being not optimal. If you save 1K and pay 250 for a good tech you're ahead. It's all economies of scale. Conversely, the Mara is cheaper than the Diadema because it's smaller (great) but is the frame stainless or powder-coated (rust city, don't let them lie to you). What about how rattley or noisy the machine is... the better built machines feel better and sound nicer... otherwise nobody would pay extra. Where are you located? There is bound to be a great retailer near you that won't BS you. Avoid fully commercial web-pages if you want the truth as opposed to economic convenience. Welcome and good luck!

West_Village

Thanks for your tips Brett, I hadn't considered the powder coated element as a true weakness previously but you have shed light on that for me. Im located in Sydney and I tried to tee up one of the major espresso retailers for some input but wasn't really provided much input on my preferred options of the diadema/ECM however they were pushing the mara pretty hard when it wasn't on my radar Originally. This is what got me interested in the comparison in the first instance. Don't get me wrong they appear to be a stunning looking machine and I'm sure they would do the job quite aptly. I guess I just wanted to know minus the BS if it's great value because it's small and therefore less has been spent on "steel" and that is why the lelit maras are a great valued proposition or if it was in fact for other reasons they are better? . Or (without wanting to offend anyone's choice) do they a sit in the quality bracket below the ECM and diademas. I agree it's a law of diminishing returns at this price point and they more or less all achieve the same result. Have you yourself use a lelit by any chance Brett?

askthecoffeeguy

ive used one and i thought it was a good machine but I like the build quality of the ECM better purely for aesthetic reasons - Ive owned a few machines in this bracket< Bezzera Domus Galatea (ok was quite a bit more expensive when I bought it) and a couple of BFC's which were excellent - but in the end I settled on a second hand semi commercial single group because of the larger boiler capacity - which means that I can put out more coffees per hr if I need to just a personal preference, is all - still, you're not going to get a bad coffee from the machines that you're looking at in that price bracket, and. if you're anything like many on the forum,. you'll probably turn the machine over in a few years anyway - in which case corrosion shouldn't be an issue good luck with whatever you decide ACG

Brett_H

Hi WV, I've used lots of Lelit and Nemox/Lux machines over the years. They are terrific but not in the same class as the more expensive machines. I've not played with the Mara sadly and agree that it looks like a terrific albeit cheaper solution. My only other thought is the agree completely with ACG. If you do turn the machin over in a couple of years the big boys will have better sales/return appeal than the Mara.

K_Bean_Coffee

Hi OP, The Lelit Mara is a great machine. You can read my thoughts here: https://www.kbean.com.au/espresso-machines/lelit-mara-pl62-pid Please take a look at my buyer's guide here: https://www.kbean.com.au/buyers-guide/ Cheers 🙂 Paul

Koffee_Kosmo

West Village wrote:

Hi guys, Im new here so a hello from me. I'll be in the market for a new machine shortly due to a milestone bday. I have a budget of about 2K to play with to purchase a new toy. I currently have a K6 grinder to pair it with. I'm tossing up the machines mentioned in the title above and wanted to get some of your valued thoughts on them. I drink about 3-4 coffees a day and I like to mix it up between espressos and milk based drinks. I wanted to know which machine stood out from a quality build perspective and which may likely fail least given the longevity of use I want out of this purchase. I'd prefer something that doesn't contain a lot of electronics in order to satisfy this. I like the bling of an E61 and the ability of a HX also. Secondly, I had only really considered the diadema and ECM due to their perceived superior builds but have felt a big push lately from a few people on the lelit mara and wanted to understand if this machine is in the same category as the diadema and ECM machines or are they considered the notch below? Is there much difference between these three machines in the cup? Thanks guys

If you are looking at the Lelit Mara then you should have a look and compare it to a better finished Bezzera BZ10 @ $400 less Personally I much prefer an E61 group head HX machine or a Lever 8) KK

West_Village

Okay so I got a bit more feedback regarding the legit machines which I'll share with you all. Regarding feature highlights and build quality over the other models mentioned. The legit has: Electronic water sensoring PID ( which argued is to set a consistent 93 brew water temp. Stainless steel chassis and casing ( same as the VBM's as opposed to the powder coated steel ECM's and anodised steel of the diademas) It was of the opinion of the retailer that there was nothing more inherently reliable about the diademas or other brands mentioned when compared to the lelit. The fact that the lelit uses an electronic PID as opposed to a mechanical switch and relay ( which argued would burn out quicker if left on all the time was used) wasn't necessarily less reliable as it has been used in many other models with a Track record of minimal failure rates. Regarding build quality compared to the other models mentioned they appear to stack up ok. Maybe thickness of material used could be a differentiator? So all in all they appear a decent offering with a decent quality build and at least the above info may help out others who may have some similar lines of enquiries. Thanks to KK for for his Bezzera recommendation because I think I am now completely in love with the Bezzeras (such is life). In particular the magica or guilia models which on sale can be had for ballpark the same amount as the previous mentioned machines. They look a fantastic build and stunning from an asthetics point of view and appear a really good value proposition. Has anyone had a play with either the Magica or Guilia? Anything to watch out for? ( I think I just hijacked my own thread? )

Koffee_Kosmo

I have tested out every Bezzera offering They are extremely well finished by a long way The only unit I did not like is the older BZ7 single boiler Both the Magica & Guilia are great machines - test and compare and chose the one best suited to your needs Sponsor Bezzera Australia have a few run out models on sale at this very moment KK

K_Bean_Coffee

Hi all, I thought the BZ10 was a great sub-$2k entry machine until I had complaints about it running hot and spitting steam. They also ran at 11-12 bar - too high. I offered a 3 month "exchange" period and 2 customers returned them. This is all well documented on another forum I hate to be negative but I owe it to the community to be upfront and transparent. Regards Paul 🙂

West_Village

Thanks Paul, do you or anyone else for that matter know if this was more so an isolated batch causing the issue or if this is/was an ongoing issue which hasn't been resolved to the best of your knowledge? Was it affecting any other models ? It would need to be a diabolical issue to turn my head away from the Bezzeras at this stage to be honest. Stunning machine! Cheers

West_Village

What are your thoughts Paul on the showdown mentioned? Any standouts features/build that sets some above the others in your opinion?

Koffee_Kosmo

The BZ10 is available in a PID version and has been since the release of the BZ 7 and its predecessor about ten years ago Tha Mara is a copy of what has been available from other brands But as I indicated in my first reply My preference is a HX with an E61 group head or a Lever machine and if you can get one of those at a great price then go for it KK

K_Bean_Coffee

Extract from my Buyer's guide: 6 steps to the right gear Read a "Buyer's Guide" or two. Click around a few websites including mine. Try to narrow down to a short list. Search the web and forums for reviews and user comments for gear on your short list. Find out about potential retailers. A good place to start is with customer reviews. You will find my 50+ Google Reviews. Contact a retailer or two by phone or better still, visit a show room to see, touch and play with the gear. There's only so much you can learn online. Getting up close and personal will help you with that final decision. The simple step - buy the gear 🙂

K_Bean_Coffee

Another buyer's guide extract for you: "Online there's a mix commercial interests and hobbyists. Most commercial interests are transparent, but unfortunately, some work from the shadows to push their agendas. The good news is that the online community is absolutely dominated by passionate hobbyists. Tap into that community and become a part of it. When things are healthy, different opinions are welcomed and constructively debated with boundless energy and enthusiasm." Cheers, Paul 🙂

K_Bean_Coffee

Back to the thread topic: Diadema Jnr - I don't know it and don't stock it. I do know it has a good reputation. ECM barista - I do stock it and it's a great entry level machine. I refer the Mara though and so do most customer. Lelit Mara - I stock it and I love it 🙂 Cheers, Paul 🙂

West_Village

In my opinion i thought Bezzera designed their machines with the OPV set at 11-12 bar for the Italian/European markets preference for their more desired roast styles I.e darker whereas the Australian preference for medium roasts suited a 9.5? I thought I saw somewhere that some of the Australian stockists for Bezzera machines have provided that feedback directly to Bezzera to which they had adjusted their OPV directly to 9.5 before being shipped to oz. Anyone able to confirm if that sounds right? Would that negate some of the issues mentioned above ? Secondly, anyone know of a retailer in Sydney where I could sit the magica/guilia alongside an ECM, VBM and a Mara to compare?

Koffee_Kosmo

West Village wrote:

In my opinion i thought Bezzera designed their machines with the OPV set at 11-12 bar for the Italian/European markets preference for their more desired roast styles I.e darker whereas the Australian preference for medium roasts suited a 9.5? I thought I saw somewhere that some of the Australian stockists for Bezzera machines have provided that feedback directly to Bezzera to which they had adjusted their OPV directly to 9.5 before being shipped to oz. Anyone able to confirm if that sounds right? Would that negate some of the issues mentioned above ? Secondly, anyone know of a retailer in Sydney where I could sit the magica/guilia alongside an ECM, VBM and a Mara to compare?

The OPV can be adjusted at any time Any quality retailer will adjust the OPV and do a wet test run of the machine prior to collection or shipping Di Bartoli is in Sydney and stock several brands including Bezzera KK

K_Bean_Coffee

West Village wrote:

Secondly, anyone know of a retailer in Sydney where I could sit the magica/guilia alongside an ECM, VBM and a Mara to compare?

Hi there, Drop in to Jet Black Espresso. Those guys are fantastic. They have one of the biggest ranges in Sydney, but, like me, they don't stock Bezzera. The biggest change in recent years is the entry of quality German brands - ECM and Profitec. The Profitec Pro 500 is fantastic: https://www.kbean.com.au/profitec-machines/?rq=Profitec Cheers 🙂 Paul

West_Village

Thanks everyone for your help, much appreciated. I'll take away all the tips as part of my due diligence in making my final assessment but at this stage Im leaning heavily towards the Bezzeras ( Strega being the ultimate goal but my price point probably dictating a magica). Apologies if I have caused grief for anyone ( sponsors especially ) as I'm only new to forums . Cheers

Koffee_Kosmo

West Village wrote:

Thanks everyone for your help, much appreciated. I'll take away all the tips as part of my due diligence in making my final assessment but at this stage Im leaning heavily towards the Bezzeras ( Strega being the ultimate goal but my price point probably dictating a magica). Apologies if I have caused grief for anyone ( sponsors especially ) as I'm only new to forums . Cheers

Mate you are well within your rights in choosing a machine that suits you It's always prudent to look at a variety of options and go forth from that Keep us in the loop with your eventual choice so we can all get that new machine feeling by proxy :thumb: KK