Lacehim wrote:
Fact is budget. I would love a Porsche 911 sitting in my garage, but I have a Hyundai. 🙂 A HX is a good machine. Avoid the single boilers. If you just won lotto or have some cash to splash, buy a dual boiler. KK is right that you will see an improvement in upgrading your grinder, so I would keep the budget in check, buy a decent HX (you will not be disappointed), and save up for a grinder upgrade. I don't know if KK has use the BSG you have, but IMO they are a great entry level grinder, and they will cope with a new machine just fine. When you upgrade the grinder you'll know how to use your machine and the transition will be smooth.
I am pretty sure I am heading for an HX. Usually the most I have to make at one time is two but that is pretty rare. Very occasionally I might have to make up to half a dozen but that would be a twice a year occurrence. A social butterfly I ain't ^-^. I will keep a better grinder in mind but if the BSG holds up ok with the new machine I won't be replacing it before it needs to be.
Dry bean. wrote:
I have a different opinion re dual and single boiler machines Lacehim. I have a single boiler Bezzera HX, does everything I need in the brewing and steam dept, in fact more than enough steam. Re twin boilers, means two boilers along with additional electronics to maintain or fail, I'm a big believer in the KISS principle. 🙂
I am aiming to keep things simple for myself, believe me they need to be lol, that less that can go wrong, both operator wise and machine wise, the better >😃.
samuellaw178 wrote:
Maybe it's just picking at the terminology, machines like Rancilio Silvia are true single boiler machines. HX is more like single and more boiler(the actual boiler and the heat exchanger for heating water). Dual boiler has two boilers, there you have it. 😛 With Heat Exchange(HX machine), you usually need to flush a bit more water than the dual boiler to achieve target brew temperature. Generally that's the main difference. Both can be excellent, but has slightly different workflow to get there. For dual boiler you're basically paying a lot more for getting similar result that can be achieved by HX, but it's slightly easier to get there with less water flushing. So if you have the spare cash, I'd go for dual boiler. Otherwise, I'll be happy with a HX too. Not much can go wrong as long as you go for a reputable HX, rather than some maybe China-made HX that has no supports. That's unlikely tho. :laugh:
My son had his heart set on a Silvia, he likes the straight lines, the minimalistic and uncluttered look. I admit I did have more than a passing thought about going that route. I have my fingers crossed that not much can go wrong, that is why I am asking for advice from those who know ;D. The Chinese make HX machines? Well, who knew? Not me anyway :laugh:.
Dry bean. wrote:
Chris from Talk Coffee had this to say re HX V dual boiler machines on another forum back in 2006, pretty well sums up my thoughts as well. My Bezzera Domus Galatea is a HX machine and is not at all prone to over heating. 🙂 "Yes and no, in my opinion Monti...A well made HX is also temp stable. My machine is capable of knocking out as many shots as I want without temp variation. The routine, whether hx or dual boiler is to flush until the water looks good and then go for it- doesnt matter which style of machine you use. What many CSers can forget is that the dual boiler machines- Minore II for example- are chock a block full of components and technology whereas the HX machines are simple- you lift the hood and its like looking under the bonnet of an old car...there is not much in there- therefore not much can go wrong. I have little doubt that ownership of a dual boiler machine will be more expensive in the long term because they are so full of boiler, water lines and electronics- which are not that crazy about heat.... Both types of machine are capable of superb coffee with a modicum of training...just as they are capable of garbage."
The less components the better, in my opinion. Even hubby says the same thing and Electronic Engineering is his bread and butter ;D.
Brett H wrote:
I've had all styles from thermoblock, single boiler then HX to double boiler! They're all capable of good coffee. The further you go down the list the less you fiddle to get great coffee and the most out of the beans! The PID in the double boiler allows you to vary the brew water temperatures to ensure you get the very best or worst out of your beans!
Getting the worst out of my beans. Now that is something to fear ^-^. Any thoughts on the PID Lelits? Yes, I am keeping all options open 😛.
Moon wrote:
I haven't either - so I'm totally going out on a wing here :🙂 As for getting a double boiler or whether to go with the single boiler with the HX - it would depend how many coffees at a time do you need to make in a session. If I was doing a fair amount of entertaining where visitors go coffee rather than say bottles of wine etc .. I'd go double boiler to handle the volume. If it is mainly for yourself or 2 or 3 friends over .. some preferring tea .. I'd go the single boiler with the HX .. only I'd go at least a 2 ltr boiler .. or even 3 ltr. Mine is a 3 ltr boiler which at first thought was way too big .. but I often only fill it up for one 40ml shot or perhaps 2 plus steam, which means it still has to boil a minimum of 1.2 ltr of water each time so as to not set off the low water indicator .. as you have to fill it up enough to cover the heating element plus more that is used + I am also aware of not being wasteful with electricity as well as not needlessly overworking the element to hopefully prolong its life. A double boiler needs more water and costs more to run. Even multimillionaires would be thinking of the extra $ cost of a twin boiler :🙂 When choosing a boiler size ... start with what you believe to be ample .. then go 1ltr larger. 8) One other consideration. Water gets stale if its been sitting in the boiler for longer than a couple of days. I can turn mine upside down to empty it. A drain plug so that you can easily empty it and refill with fresh (preferably filtered) water is essential imo. I've only had light weight machines that are easy to empty .. so make sure a heavy machine has a plug. I'm assuming they do .. or do they empty them via the hot water tap/arm? So .. basically - mainly personal use (HX) or regular entertaining (twin boiler)
Size of boiler and electricity usage were a couple of things I had not considered. Thanks for giving me something else to ponder over 🙂. Hopefully we have all bases now covered 🙂. Thank you each and everyone of you for putting in the time to enlighten me and for giving me something more to think about. Sue XX
