Knives.... what to get

Lwowiak

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

I was going to get them as well but I could not find any during my visit I did however get the cast iron cooking pots and pans and utensils

I was interested in the knife, but all sold out in both Aldi stores I looked in. I bought the cast iron pots from Aldi over a year ago. They are very good value for money, and we use them all the time. In hindsight they are exceptional value for money.

Brett_H

For the Global fans amongst us. Personally I like my Wusthof Culinar knives but having used this exact knife in a former life can tell you it cuts stuff and won't break ya wrist or the bank. http://www.everten.com.au/Global-Chefs-Knife-Masterchef.html I have purchased one of these recently and for bread I've not used anything like it. So good and Culinar sexy!! http://www.chefknivestoyou.com/product/4539.html I've also seen these recently and reckon they are worth a punt if you enjoy blade maintenance: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KU92-2C-KUMI-Japanese-DAMASCUS-VG10-Multi-Layer-Small-Santoku-Knife-4-8-/251102964320?pt=AU_Cutlery&hash=item3a76e72a60&_uhb=1#ht_5936wt_922

Brett_H

More specials for knife fans: https://m.catchoftheday.com.au/smallfish_info.php?event_id=2673&utm_source=cotd&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=sos1_20130108 And slightly upmarket: http://www.yourhomedepot.com.au/products/shun-knives/chef-s-knife-20cm/chef-knives And slightly better value: http://www.yourhomedepot.com.au/products/global-knives/global-knife-block-set-5pc-ship-shape-10-slot-red-na/knife-block-sets My current knives. I have a Mundial set in a box downstairs because two of the handle have cracked. I will grab a Damasus knife at some stage just to have a play with. I like be look of the Ken Onion Shun knives but prefer SS handles.

galumay

My eclectic collection of kitchen knives,

From left, a trusty old carbon steel clever from Thailand, my Messermeister 10" (best of the german knives IMO), my Kasumi Sashimi Knife, filleting knife from the tinny!, Japanese SAKAI Carbon Steel Wa-Petty Knife Negoro, Japanese SAKAI Carbon Steel Kama-Usuba Vegetable Knife, Peter Lorimer hand made herb rocker, Peter Lorimer Hand Made Chef's Knife, Cheap Sth American Chef's Knife (about $15, i have about 6 of them, take a good edge, strong and take rough treatment.) Random Bread knife

Kelsey

Nice find Brett!

Kelsey

There's a special on Zwilling today: Zwilling J.A. Henckels: http://www.catchoftheday.com.au/smallfish_info.php?event_id=2717&utm_source=cotd&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailydeal_20130115

Brett_H

Holy cheap as chips batman! Obviously these are the Wusthof Gourmet competitors and very keenly priced at that! Henckles are a decent blade in general.

Kelsey

I'm re-evaluating the 'no knife block' idea that I had. Limited space and nowhere to mount a magnetic block is causing me concern re: having a super-sharp gyuto lying around. The knife block is at least a lot easier to keep out of his reach. Are the Henckles any good? Haven't heard much about them...

coffeehorse

Kelsey wrote:

I'm re-evaluating the 'no knife block' idea that I had. Limited space and nowhere to mount a magnetic block is causing me concern re: having a super-sharp gyuto lying around. The knife block is at least a lot easier to keep out of his reach. Are the Henckles any good? Haven't heard much about them...

The Henckel knives are a direct competitor for most other 'german style' knives, but come in a whole heap of different qualities, with some of the cheapest ones being stamped rather than forged, and a few of the lines being high carbon (HC). They're a massive company, Zwilling JA Henckels now owning brands like Staub as well, and produce stuff that's to a decent standard, if a little heavy. A very typical 'what you expect for the money', traditional european brand. Be careful of retailers selling the cheaper lines at highly marked up prices and trading on the name though. Have you considered a knife wrap or silk/cotton lined drawer? If you're using Japanese knives then you should be cleaning and oiling after every use to prevent rust spots and suchlike - i know someone who built softwood wedges with bamboo cotton sleeves for drying the knives and kept them in the top drawer of the kitchen... such a lazy and elegant solution. I'm of the opinion that a magnetic knife rack looks good but is more practical with lighter and blunter knives - carefully sneaking the base of the gyuto onto the rack while turning the blade away and then stopping the knife 'slapping' the raw metal is faffy at best. Having said that, I covered the last mag. holder I had in silk + bamboo cotton (alternate wrap, silk for dry knives and cotton for wet ones) and the knives stuck well - plus it prettied up an ugly IKEA rack. Also stopped the knife sides scuffing.

Kelsey

I like the idea of the cotton/wood wedges. Currently the top draw is a nightmare - everything we don't want Ollie getting into is all shoved in. Ideally I want to clean the whole thing out, throw out all the randoms and just get a couple of decent knives to work with. When I finally get around to a decision, the prime consideration has got to be safety - it's not enormously practical to have a kiddie lock on the main cutlery draw, but we might just have to do it. That's why the magnetic knife block is being considered... But... For the moment all purchases are on hold by order of the finance minister!

coffeehorse

This might sound silly, but all my knives came in boxes. Have you thought about getting a santoku, gyuto and petty and keeping them in the boxes? It certainly gets rid of 'kitchenware overkill', and apart from a chinese cleaver & a tuna knife, they're the main things I can think of wanting.

Kelsey

I hadn't thought of that, but that's probably the best idea. This was the main all purpose knife I was thinking of starting with: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/Zensho-Yoshikane-SKD-Kasumi-Gyuto-240-mm-p/613.htm

coffeehorse

If you're 'starting', I have to admit that while I like nice things too, and it is a nice thing, I'd start with a knife that's a better all-round value proposition. Don't get me wrong, but i'd start cheaper and build a collection or splurge on a 'really nice knife'. The price point on that knife is somewhat high for a stainless steel, traditional handled wa-gyuto. Bear in mind that a Hiromoto high carbon gyuto (western handle) is $161 on JCK and the 'normal steel' version is about $15 cheaper at $145. Essentially my take is that the knife is a poor copy of a lot of knives I'd love to own (Masamoto, Honyaki, Mr. Itou) and the more traditional handle isn't something that adds a lot of value. At 180-190g for a 240mm gyuto, I'd expect you to find it a bit light - I'm no WotB but have worked in professional kitchens and my take is that you're better off getting a knife professionally sharpened than mucking around with stones. What you think is a 'sharp edge' is something I would put a wager on is 'blunt' by the standards of someone like http://www.japaneseknifesharpening.com/ I'd rather budget for a Hiromoto AS knife or similar, some nice oil and a decade of sharpenings (including a re-handling with a wa- handle) than buy a $300+ knife and let it go blunt. If you're wanting to buy your own stones, then have you thought about using JCK, shipping to JKS and getting stones + art of sharpening DVD? I know that's what I'd do.

Kelsey

Thanks, good advice. Just a few months ago my idea of awesome knives was globals - but then looking around a bit more I got to play with both globals and shuns and realised how ridiculously light the globals were. Shun was much more to my taste, but I instantly recognised the price tag as an example of both the Australia Tax and a canny marketing ploy. That's when I started looking at Japanese imports, but I've been so flat out (and worn out!) I haven't had the time to do my research yet. I was advised to look at JNS and it seemed pretty reasonable to get the 'genuine article' for about the same price as a shun. I'm more than pleased to find that I can get something decent for much less. As to the lightness, I didn't enjoy the weight of the wustofs when I was trying them against Shuns - felt a little heavier than I'd want to work with. At this stage I'd probably rather get it sharpened when needed than deal with it myself - although it's almost certainly something I'll want to get into at some stage. Any further recommendations are most welcome.

Koffee_Kosmo

If you like Japanese knives I have found a Japanese site ( in English ) that offers many brands of je highest quality that just never get exported But they will source and ship - http://japanesechefsknife.com/ KK

Kelsey

Thanks KK, I think that's the one CH was referring to above. Speaking of which, CH sent me a link via PM to a forum discussion that was interesting, wide ranging and reminiscent of our own 'what ifs'. From that I've been looking at a few different knives, but the current stand out is this: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riulst25gy.html Which I quite like for the depth of blade, which would probably work well with my grasp....

Brett_H

Nice! My next purchase will be a Shun Classic because I love their look, feel, and I'm tired of bloody chefs telling me that they are awesome. I love the Wusthofs for the ease of care and ease they do everything but every cooking course I do some smartarse tells me Oooo, you got to get into the Shun. Just for once I want to say yep, I got their classic chefs knife and it looks bloody amazing on the wall! :rofl:

Kelsey wrote:

Thanks KK, I think that's the one CH was referring to above. Speaking of which, CH sent me a link via PM to a forum discussion that was interesting, wide ranging and reminiscent of our own 'what ifs'. From that I've been looking at a few different knives, but the current stand out is this: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riulst25gy.html Which I quite like for the depth of blade, which would probably work well with my grasp....

coffeehorse

My main issue with Shun Classic is price/performance. Hiromoto are 50/50 bevel while Shun Classic are right-handed, with a 60/40 bevel. If you like the weight and balance, the classic's aren't actually 'bad' value for money, especially if purchased from Everten in the US. However, the 50/50 bevel of the Shun Elite, much better balance, better steel and better handle materiels mean the 15cm petty (vegetable knife) is hard to look past. Kelsey - have you held many wa- knives? The only thing about the handles is that you either love or hate them. That looks a little 'fat' along the blade - compare it to the shape of a standard Gyuto and you might be surprised - see http://www.chefknivestogo.com/higykn24.html for the one I use. My only thinking left on the richmond is that it's a good looking knife and a reasonable pricing proposition, but a little bit of a strange 'first'. - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kagigy24.html is a little expensive but looks like a good traditional gyuto.

Koffee_Kosmo

I like these professional knives fom Japan at fair prices - http://japanesechefsknife.com/KANETSUGU.html

coffeehorse

Brett H wrote:

Make sure you try the plastic fantastics because there is a good reason they are the mainstay of many industrial kitchens.

This is the most under-rated comment in this thread. Having tried the Pro-M series, I thought they were 'an orrific' knife. Chef's Armoury used to sell them (I've noticed they don't any more), and despite being fairly sharp and made of good steel, they were pretty 'plasticky' in balance. They are compelling if you love the balance of Global knives but not the blade flexibility, though they've got about half the flex of the Global range, which is too much for my liking. One thing in their favour is that they're much better finished than a lot of the 'artisan' knives - many Japanese knives are sold with grind marks and a fairly rough edge on the basis that anyone who buys one will be able and willing to put an edge on themselves. This is especially true of the high carbon knives, which need oiling and sharpening regularly, rather than once every few months (or once a year if you're lazy). If you're buying your first knife, a good bit of advice on most forums is that it should be made of VG10, a stainless steel designed in Japan specifically for chefs and the cutlery industry. If a Wusthof holds a 1/10 sharpness edge (Initial Cutting Performance) for 7/10 time (total card cut), VG10 might hold a 7-8/10 edge for 9/10 time, while blue/white high carbon steels like R2 will hold a 8-10/10 edge for 5/10 time. As the charts @ http://www.minosharp.jp/catra/index.html show, sharpening a knife to a really nice edge actually increases the amount of time it stays sharp - contrary to the popular belief that if you 'sharpen a knife too much' it ' goes really blunt faster'. VG10 is low maintenance (hard to rust), while high carbon needs working to get a nice patina on the knife (if you care), needs sharpening more regularly and oiling more regularly, and is the kind of thing you can chip or rust if you don't know what you're doing - actually it's hard to create a nice even edge on high carbon steel if you don't know what you're doing, so it'll have 'blunt patches' compared to a less skillful job of a VG10 edge.

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