Syrups, Powders and Potions in Coffee shops or Cafes

beanflying

Interested in what industry people in particular think about this topic as most of the coffee nuts amongst us certainly wouldn't drink them (at least I hope you don't) 😉

I have been helping sort out a little issue with a major franchised coffee outlet nearby and I spent over an hour yesterday just sitting back behind the counter watching. Fairly staggering the percentage of doctored coffees be they white chocolate mochas to hazelnut syrups to other various concoctions. My guesstimate would be approaching 30% of drinks were not the more standard unadulterated espresso based milk drinks.

So to this end is the specialty coffee market doing themselves a financial disservice by not having them or if they have them not promoting them more? Should the people promoting these drinks be burnt at the stake?

RichardM

My personal opinion is there is a demand, thus the cafe's must supply it. Sure, I hate syrups, but I'm more than happy to make a mocha from a good quality cocoa. I think if places have syrups, they need to focus more on the way that places like Gloria Jeans/Zarrafas/San Churros do it - make a few "signature drinks" - a "Caramel Latte" sounds better than "Latte.......Flavour 50c extra", and this way you don't end up with an infinite number of concoctions to confuse the customers. Some of the get out of hand (like that Chilli Lime one I saw the other day) and just never should be mixed with coffee.

Koffee_Kosmo

I agree with Richard If someone wants to buy it then you must cater for it They need to have a separate menu Traditional & Signature Style I favour a special drink as a signature beverage as opposed to a squirt of something in a traditional drink KK

Lacehim

I personally think speciality coffee should avoid these things. Lets face it they are there for the coffee, not hiding all that flavour in a sugary syrup. I used to take sugar in my coffee, but when I started drinking good, well made coffee I found I no longer need it in milk based drinks. The milk is sweet enough if done right. Maybe these syrup folk need educating? 😉 Who knows. Point them to the nearest GJ or SB. I've never had a decent coffee from either of them. I avoid those places like the plague but lets face it they aren't going out of business, and people are still queuing up for a weak skinny latte with extra froth and a tons of vanilla syrup in it (defeats the point of using skinny milk eh). I really boils down to... If you want that business or need the customers, you have to cater for them. Take there money and run! 🙂

RichardM

Lacehim wrote:

tons of vanilla syrup in it (defeats the point of using skinny milk eh).

No. They have their coffee and lollies fat free. They have their lollies with no artificial colours and flavours. They have their coke sugar free. They have their chips done in cholesterol free oil. They pick the Heart Foundation Approved McDonalds meals. I'm sure in their mind they are the healthiest people ever! In the end, it all comes down to marketing.

askthecoffeeguy

depends upon the environment and that market potential - i introduced syrups and flavoured mocha's etc whaeen I had a cafe at Melbourne Uni and my sales nearly doubled whilst still serving great coffee - so I reckon its horses for courses and recognising who youre target clientele are and whether they're being properly serviced or not... p

Dry_bean

Lacehim wrote:

I personally think speciality coffee should avoid these things. Lets face it they are there for the coffee, not hiding all that flavour in a sugary syrup. I used to take sugar in my coffee, but when I started drinking good, well made coffee I found I no longer need it in milk based drinks. The milk is sweet enough if done right. Maybe these syrup folk need educating? 😉 Who knows. Point them to the nearest GJ or SB. I've never had a decent coffee from either of them. I avoid those places like the plague but lets face it they aren't going out of business, and people are still queuing up for a weak skinny latte with extra froth and a tons of vanilla syrup in it (defeats the point of using skinny milk eh). I really boils down to... If you want that business or need the customers, you have to cater for them. Take there money and run! 🙂

This good coffee does not need sugar thing seems to raise it's head on a regular basis, what is not taken into account is individual taste, we're all different, so for the crusaders among us to tell someone who uses sugar/syrup that they are wrong or uneducated is , well, wrong. Who are we too dictate to others what they should or should not put in their coffee, the fact that there is a big demand for flavourings and sugar should be all the information we need. So to say "The milk is sweet enough if done right. " is akin to saying there is something wrong with your palate, we need to simply accept the fact that some of us enjoy sugar/syrup in coffee and are not about to change regardless of what others tell us. Now having said all that let me tell you that I use sugar and heaven forbid on occasion even syrup, if it offends some of the pedants among us all I can say is broaden your outlook and recognise the fact that we are all different and as such have different tastes. FWIW just enjoyed a long black with a teaspoon of maple syrup (KK's recent suggestion) enjoyed being the operative word. 😉

beanflying

Demographics of the syrup set was interesting too 14-20+ year old females mainly. In part this is locality center of town in a shopping precinct. Go around the corner of the same town to a place run by the best Baristas with Grinders (shudder) and the Syrup rate while they have them is much much lower by comparison. In part because they are out of site and the menu doesn't scream sugary treats with pictures. Different set of people 20-40+ semi Hipster (such as we have them in the bush. btw The idea of a signature drink or a drink of the week doesn't totally repel me 😉

RichardM

AngerManagement wrote:

Light Meals got - and it had to be HINEZ Tomato Sauce.... On Icecream or Bread and butter pudding as well :🙂 :🙂 :-[ :-X :o Heavy meals got - BBQ Sauce ;D :o OH and coffee was two heaped instant and 4 sugar but Tea was black no sugar AND a non Smoker :o PS. He was in his late 40's and was very set in his ways. I understand he lost both his legs as a result of not managing his Diabetic condition and a few other heal issues; not the done thing in the tropics. And passed on a few years ago.

In regards to the coffee, I drink instant about the same as that. If I need a caffeine hit, I have been known to have a milky supersaturated solution of sugar/Nescafe. I don't let it get to this anymore - I pack a one cup plunger and my grinder these days. I don't get people with sauce on everything. My missus used to do that. Thankfully my cooking has turned her off having sauce on everything these days. How can someone love one thing so much that they think everything should taste like it????

hazchem

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

I agree with Richard If someone wants to buy it then you must cater for it

I have to disagree. I don't believe that if there is demand for a relevant product a cafe must cater for it. It's a business decision for each individual operator really. That said, the cafe I'm running does have a small selection of syrups. Sales aren't high, we have customers I could count on one hand that come in every day and have a belt of some flavour or other in their coffee. Would I drink it? No way. Will I gladly make them the best damn hazelnut mocha they've ever had, every day? Damn straight. Given the chance, I'd never serve soy, skim/'lite', syrups, chocolate on caps, or highly refined sugar. But that'd be a very different business to the one I am currently running.

RichardM

hazchem wrote:

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

I agree with Richard If someone wants to buy it then you must cater for it

I have to disagree. I don't believe that if there is demand for a relevant product a cafe must cater for it. It's a business decision for each individual operator really.

Doesn't that mean you agree???? I said if someone wants to buy it then you must cater for it. You said you only should cater for it if there is demand. Demand would be if someone wants to buy it. Not all cafes should have it, for sure. If there is no/little demand, for sure, definitely don't bother. Of course with this kind of thing the line has to be drawn - for example a "hole in the wall" operation with little space might have space constraints for example and not be able to stock them, no matter the demand.

beanflying

Much as I started this topic after seeing it done to extreme my current bottom line on my coffee menu is this . ;D If you want Syrups, Flavors or 16 oz Buckets of coffee flavoured milk you are in the wrong spot. It does come down to what does the business owner or manager wants to offer. It is a bit like going to a seafood restaurant and asking for pork. While it may be on the menu or even as a special you wouldn't go there expecting it in most cases. $tarbucks and GJ's have brainwashed a percentage of 'coffee drinkers' into believing it is now normal to expect these options while in this country until recent times it wasn't.

FreshCoffee2

beanflying wrote:

Interested in what industry people in particular think .................So to this end is the specialty coffee market doing themselves a financial disservice by not having them or if they have them not promoting them more? Should the people promoting these drinks be burnt at the stake?

Hehehehehe. Mad if you dont mate mad if you dont (offer a small quality selection of stuff that your clients ask for, want, and are willing to pay you for). Same as with decaff, and same as when someone wants to pay you money for a HOT capp with boiled milk in. If they want it....and you dont give it to them, you lose. 😉 This is not a game to see who can be the most arrogant with their clients and who think they can afford to refuse service for money, it is serious business and every cafe owner's livelihood. Rgdz, Attilio. Very First Crema Site Sponsor

Dry_bean

Fresh Coffee wrote:

beanflying wrote:

Interested in what industry people in particular think .................So to this end is the specialty coffee market doing themselves a financial disservice by not having them or if they have them not promoting them more? Should the people promoting these drinks be burnt at the stake?

Hehehehehe. Mad if you dont mate mad if you dont (offer a small quality selection of stuff that your clients ask for, want, and are willing to pay you for). Same as with decaff, and same as when someone wants to pay you money for a HOT capp with boiled milk in. If they want it....and you dont give it to them, you lose. 😉 This is not a game to see who can be the most arrogant with their clients and who think they can afford to refuse service for money, it is serious business and every cafe owner's livelihood. Rgdz, Attilio. Very First Crema Site Sponsor

Well said Attilio, if a customer wants mashed banana in his coffee and is willing to pay for it my only question would be how much would you like. ;D

FreshCoffee2

say.....mashed banana...! Might give that a go in back of house and see what its like ;D Chiz, A.

FreshCoffee2

Just to make sure I thought it should be mentioned............ BF, in my post above I made reference to "arrogance" and I would like to say publicly and just in case there could be any misunderstanding from anyone reading this, that the comment was in no way directed at you. It was merely a general reference re attitudes in some coffee "geek" circles. Now lets see if i cant put my foot in it somewhere else ;D Rgdz, Attilio

beanflying

No problem Attilio, I took it as I think you meant it as a general comment on the industry. My position on Syrups has softened a little over the last few years if anything but I would also hate to see the industry adopt the GJ's/$tarbucks version of it being 'normal' at the expense of the coffee.

Koffee_Kosmo

beanflying wrote:

No problem Attilio, I took it as I think you meant it as a general comment on the industry. My position on Syrups has softened a little over the last few years if anything but I would also hate to see the industry adopt the GJ's/$tarbucks version of it being 'normal' at the expense of the coffee.

I wholeheartedly agree with this KK

hiphipharar

In a related vein: TO ADD sugar or not to add sugar, that is the question. A Lilyfield barista has left the inner-west latte set reeling by refusing to add sugar while he's making coffee. Yves Shepherd, owner of Catherine & Piper, erected a sign a few weeks ago announcing the unthinkable: ''DIY sugar''. Advertisement: Story continues below ''We found that in the colder months it's creating a bottleneck in terms of the speed at which we could offer a really great coffee,'' Mr Shepherd said. ''If you get a large cappuccino with two sugars, you're only getting chocolate and sugar. The coffee is adjunct to that.'' Shepherd says some customers have repeated the directive back to him in disbelief. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/restaurants-and-bars/pour-diddums-8230-youll-get-your-coffee-how-we-like-it-20110520-1ewov.html#ixzz1MwgTL2B2

FreshCoffee2

Personally I dont see what the problem is.... My own situation is that we run a "coffee house" within the confines of our "coffee roasterie". We are not a "cafe" as in an eatery with a coffee machine. We are coffee specialists, and all our coffees including those with the dreaded flavouring in them, go out made properly with the utmost care using the best equipment by our top "barista". W dont need to put up signs like "we are serious about our coffee" or "respect for the bean" etc because in our place where we are a long established and profesisonal coffee roasterie, that would be a bit of a "cliche" and could put the clients off....kind of like having up those signs that say "we dont serve HOT milk or milk above a certain temperature, and dishing out luke warm mlik coffees etc....that just puts people off because they make you (us) look like some kind of "snob" in the derogatory sense of the word, and that means they dont come back and spend more dollars.... I understand not everyone can be a "coffee house" like we are but..... As a business that is mindful of absolute quality AND....our bottom line, we do serve decaff (admittedly it is also certifiefied organic as well as fair trade movement so "ethically up there"); We do offer a small selection of flavours for those that want them; We do offer sugar; We do offer mugs; We do offer black, green, white and flavoured tea, "chai", and sundry infusions including peppermint etc. These are all LEAF not bags. We do a good trade in "takeaway" and only offer the normal size (8 oz) and the next size up (12 oz) despite that our multi boiler PID controlled espresso machine also has the raised groups to accommodate for taller vessels. So, everythign in moderation, tastefully done, and if this doesnt fit someone's idea of what a "coffee house" should be, se la vie there (apparently) is room for all. If you pull the clients middle leg, as in act like a smartarse, they wont come back, and these businesses are usually the business owners major source of income. Refuse service at your peril. GJ's and others could only ever hope to purvey the quality that we do in the cup, even when it has flavouring in 😉 Regardz, Attilio. very first Crema site sponsor ! 😃